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Buzzwerd
Kevin @Buzzwerd

Age 32, Male

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Los Angeles

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Newgrounds and Game Developers

Posted by Buzzwerd - August 4th, 2014

I've been wanting to make a post like this for a while and with all the Youtube talk I think it's a good time for it.

Newgrounds is my alma mater. Tom provided us with a platform to grow as creative people. It was open, and everyone was sharing everything. We were mostly teenagers; drawing, animating, and coding. Newgrounds is the reason that when I was twelve I knew what I wanted to do for the rest of my life; make games. It's crazy that in the Indie Games conversation I don't hear Newgrounds attributed to it's sudden and violent growth more often. So many of the "rockstar" indie devs we praise in the industry came from Newgrounds. At a certain point though, participating becomes unfeasible.

With animated cartoons the need for higher functionality outside of Flash is somewhat low. Sure you can use After Effects, Photoshop, Toon Boom, Maya, etc, to go a bit further, but the writing, the pacing, the style and overall quality can usually stay at a rather high level without those tools. The real issue for Newgrounds here is monetization, and the iron fist Youtube currently holds on video content.

With game development it's not the same. Flash is stifling when it comes to game development. From the frustrating workarounds with Action Script, to  Flash Players' low capabilities, Flash development is a nightmare for anyone trying to make a "fully featured" game. Despite some miraculous efforts from several flash devs, I doubt their recommendation to use the same tools would be a hearty one. However, Flash is easy to learn, and easy to work with at a basic level. That leaves Newgrounds as a springboard for up and comers, and the Stencyl and Flixel jams are amazing ways that it continues doing that. But how can Newgrounds continue to nurture these up and comers once they move on to developing mobile and pc games in an attempt to make a living?

Newgrounds has been housing, promoting, and spitting out amazing game devs for a long time, the same as it has for animators. A lot of these devs are still loyal. They haven't forgotten where they came from. They may not be active anymore, but they linger, they visit their old home once in a while and contribute when they can. This hasn't really been part of the conversation, and I'm not sure what Newgrounds should do, or if they can do anything at all. They've recently begun to support HTML 5 and Unity games, and that seems like a step in the right direction.

I don't really know where Newgrounds stands, or what it could even provide to independent game developers trying to make a living. I'm sure there's been a lot thought put into moving Newgrounds forward, and I'm only voicing a thought that's been lingering in the back of my mind. I have great respect for Tom and what he's done for our community. It feels strange that coming here and promoting games completely removed from Newgrounds is my only viable means to contribute.

My current project is a remake of a game Tom/Newgrounds generously sponsored when I was 15 years old. Tom gave us a surprising amount of support with that project, going as far as making t-shirts for the NG store. It made us feel validated. We were kids making bad games, but Tom saw potential. I'm making this game with that generosity and the growth Newgrounds provided me in mind. It just feels wrong that in order to fulfill the potential Newgrounds has given me, I've had to move so far away from here. Of course that was probably never the point of newgrounds, to house us, but personally I miss it.

If anything this is just a thanks to Tom for everything. From my love of games and making games, to meeting some of my best friends, Newgrounds has been a huge influence in my life. I will always be coming back, even if it's just as a spectator for now.

Comments

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TheMajormel

Ive been saying it for a while, but I don't think flash has been pushed to its limits yet. thats what i believe anyways

Xtrullor

@TheMajormel I think Binding of Isaac was a pretty heavy game for Flash's environment. The framerates were somewhat tolerable, but it didn't run that well really. Edmund said he couldn't do everything he wanted because of the restrictions flash had, so they're now making a remake called Binding of Isaac: Rebirth.

Anyway, that was a good read Buzzwerd. A game company The Behemoth originated from Newgrounds, and they do really good games (Castle Crashers etc., recently Battleblock Theater).

Even the audio section has spawned some really good artists out there. xKore is maybe one of the most amazing examples I know, and still is one of my favorite artists out there and one of my idols I follow. I wish I was more ambitious about music back then, but I wasn't really mentally well in my younger teenage years anyway.

TheMajormel

@Xtrullor never got to play downloadable issac, I thought downloading a flash game would make it run better? What I meant by limits , i mean in terms of creative limits. There was this blue elephant game that had a puzzle where it required you to open another window of the same game page, which reveals a secret switch. Browser flash games HAVE the ability to do that, and we need more "out of the box" game design.

@Manly-Chicken the only way i can see digital service being a thing here is if only a few select games were allowed to do so. and i mean a very RARE select view. I think flash game devs can still get that revenue income flowing is if they keep supporting their game.

Buzzwerd

In terms of creativity and pushing game design forward I'd say Flash is one of the best tools. That's easily showcased by the huge wave of innovative games brought in by game jams every year. I mean even the Binding of Isaac concept was the result of a game jam. For prototypes and quick game jam games Flash actually works great as a dev tool. It's when content, polish and the ability to distribute come into question that Flash falters a bit. As an artist I can only speak to the constant complaints I've gotten from the programmers i've worked with. I've never met a veteran programmer that prefers Actionscript.

jecjoker

With Newgrounds going up as it is I'd imagine it being possible, but what does my speculation do for you? There's many things I'd love to see them do as people and as a brand together. I can say that if you start out with a good idea and put it into a demo there are other places and people who would help get word around, me being one of them but then again that's a poor alternative to working through something we know and love.

Kajenx

Flash isn't so limited, especially these days! It's the sponsorships that have gone away. I'd stay with online gaming forever if I could! It just seems like no one wants to pay me anymore. We gotta follow the money if we want to keep making things.

Sad thing is, I liked doing these small games, and that seems to be the thing that's disappearing - kind of like how short stories disappeared.

Buzzwerd (Updated )

I might've overstated Flash's limitations. It's definitely gotten better in recent years, specially for monsters like you that code AND do art, since it works well as a package. You're definitely right about sponsorships, I thought about mentioning that but i've been away from that side of things for a while so I don't know the current state of affairs. Thanks for filling in my gaps of knowledge.

*Edit* Making those small games is definitely a huge part of the appeal here. I think that's why so many people flocked to mobile, only to soon come to the realization that the form factor actually matters.

TheMajormel

yeah, probably because vet programmers believes AS doesnt have deep options. Also, as2 cant deal with memory and as3, well idunno.

I forgot to mention that @BrenTheMan and @PsychoGoldfish should get to work on that multiplayer API

Kajenx

So what kind of stuff do you work on these days? Want to hire me? ^^

Graeme

Some sort of Newgrounds publishing would be pretty amazing. A load of indie games can't get the legs they need because it is near impossible to get recognition in a market saturated with sub-par games. Newgrounds has been around so long that their name carrier a lot of weight and recognition.

I know so little on the subject though. This might be more expense and efforts than Newgrounds could afford to bare.

Buzzwerd

I've thought about this more and more over the years but always come to the exact same conclusion as you. Publishing has changed a ton in recent years, specially with digital distribution. Getting something to a wide market is easy and the usual ways of marketing (tv, web, cross-platform ads) are either expensive, or mostly ineffective. That means those methods are off the table for small teams.

Ideally publishers need to find talent and nourish it by providing stability. That means a curators eye, and a long term strategy. Newgrounds could be a perfect fit in those regards. They'd also have to be focusing on promoting the games and story behind the teams making those games. Ultimately I think that goes against what Newgrounds is about, and thats the community. Newgrounds casts a wide net, it accepts everyone who comes. Sure there are people who arrive and shine above the rest, and Newgrounds puts a spotlight on their talents, but then it moves on to give someone else a chance. It's an amazing launchpad for newcomers. There are no favorites, there are only big brothers and familiar faces, anyone can take the top spot.

But that's where I come to the same conclusion as you. I know basically nothing about the business behind publishing, or the financial burden it'd be. Beyond that I still don't think it's the best fit. Honestly though, there's no one better suited for running Newgrounds than Tom, and I can't imagine he hasn't thought about this more than we ever will.

Luis

Would be fun to do like a gold egg type project on ng like the behemoth does. Sure it'd be tough to pick one game dev or animator but I think it'd signify an investment in the industry and young raw talent. Guess it becomes a matter of money at that point.

I think something that might be cool at this state of affairs is to be really bold while yt has put a cold shoulder on people. Merge some of the forums, make under judgement dynamic, put the portal on the main nav bar. Send some people over to conventions like mag fest. I think the strength of ng is in its community so it makes sense to really push the button in that area.

I think one of the problems over the years is you start building up clutter and bloat from old features that stuvk around or didn't pan out and meanwhile you are constantly adding new ones and it all becomes overwhelming

Buzzwerd

The gold egg project is interesting, but like you said, with community being the main strength for NG, singling out a dev or animator seems like a slightly unfitting move. Something similar though, to signify NG as a leader of the industry and renew it's reputation is definitely a great idea. Maybe something tied to crowd funding to lower the financial risk for NG and include the community. Not sure.

As far as the site design, that's never been NG's strong suit. I do miss the portal being prominent, and I don't even know how the save/blam system works nowadays. The fragmentation on the forums is also silly and kind of daunting. So far it seems there's been a lot of patchwork fixes to account for the slow moving and larger changes to the framework like the upgrades to commutations (blogs, pm box). I imagine those changes you suggested to make NG more modern would take a lot of work/time, but obviously you'd have more insight into that process.

Magical-Zorse

I agree. I feel like Tom is almost a father figure in my life for creating something that allowed me to express my (what I thought to be nonexistent) creativity and to support the things I did (medals/front page featuring) for a 15 year old kid was unreal. I've been with this place through the high times in my life and also to rock bottom but I'll never forget how Newgrounds helped me become an adult.

OctoFlash

very well written! and interestingly i'm exactly one of those "old schoolers" who once decided to leave NG but is now returning with a warm feeling of coming home. i, too, do not know where newgrounds stands and where it is going to but i found that i'm glad for this wonderful opportunity tom has created and i am willing to keep it alive - and see it grow.
there are three big games i have in mind which i'm planning to make and upload here, one of which is going to be released in exactly one week. i really hope to spread the word a little bit and get some of my people closer to NG. we'll see....

of and btw, i like your idea of remaking an old game - which one is it?
also, if you're interested in my upcoming game: http://octoflash.newgrounds.com/news/post/902952

peace out!

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